In this episode of Why Distance Learning, your hosts talk again with Michael Barbour — the most-cited researcher in K-12 online and distance learning — about what it would actually take to fix how teachers are prepared to teach online, and why thirty years of K-12 virtual learning hasn't produced that change yet. Drawing on his 2024 paper with Charles Hodges, Michael lays out six concrete steps — two focused on building the research base, four focused on teacher preparation programs — and explains why none of it happens without explicit mandates from states and accreditation bodies. The assumption under examination: that teacher prep programs will gradually incorporate online pedagogy on their own as demand grows. The evidence suggests they won't, for the same reason they never properly integrated technology in the first place.Together, the hosts and Michael explore the structural reasons teacher preparation programs can't make room for online pedagogy without a mandate, even when they want to. They dig into a counterintuitive finding from Newfoundland and Labrador — where students with K-12 online learning experience actually performed worse in college online courses than their peers, not because online experience is harmful, but because of how that particular program's heavy synchronous structure coddled students in ways that didn't transfer. They examine what the research actually shows about online learning and mental health (short version: the modality isn't the problem, and during the pandemic, logging into school may have been the most normal part of a child's day). And they work through the affordances and tradeoffs of synchronous versus asynchronous instruction — a framework any practitioner can apply immediately. Michael closes with the two big questions currently driving his research: where is the field of K-12 online learning thirty years in, and how much of what gets regulated in the US is driven by ideology rather than evidence?Key topics:Six-step framework for reforming online teacher preparation (Barbour & Hodges, 2024)Why teacher prep programs don't change without state or accreditation mandatesThe Newfoundland counterintuitive finding: when prior online experience hurtsSite-based facilitators / e-deans and the role of on-site support in distance programsSynchronous vs. asynchronous instruction: affordances, tradeoffs, and how to chooseOnline learning and student mental health: what the research actually showsGovernance and regulation of K-12 online learning in the US vs. other jurisdictionsLinks & Resources:Michael Barbour's website: michaelbarbour.comBarbour, M. K., & Hodges, C. B. (2024). Preparing teachers to teach online: Steps for teacher education. Open Praxis. https://openpraxis.org/articles/10.55982/openpraxis.16.4.727Barbour, M. K., Moore, S., & Veletsianos, G. (2023). Online/remote learning and mental health. https://touroscholar.touro.edu/tucse-pubs/29/Digital Learning Collaborative / Community for Advancing Digital Learning (DLAC): Research agenda report and special issue of the Journal of Online Learning Research https://www.deelac.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/DLAC-Research-Agenda-Phase-2-Final-1052025.pdfGuest Bio: Michael BarbourMichael Barbour is widely cited as the most prolific researcher in K-12 online and distance learning. His work spans student success and persistence in virtual environments, teacher preparation for online instruction, and the governance and regulation of K-12 online programs across jurisdictions. He is currently focused on building a research agenda for the field and examining how political ideology shapes online learning policy in the United States compared to other countries. Barbour holds a faculty position and has previously held posts at Wayne State University, among others.About the Hosts: Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of Why Distance Learning. Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators — building the kind of structured, human-centered distance learning the podcast explores. See https://banyangloballearning.com/programs/global-cohortsTami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell work with CILC, the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, to help educators implement high-quality live virtual learning experiences across grade levels. Discover more at CILC.org.